No way would I ever live in...

A few weeks ago, Janet and I wrote about possibly moving on to greener pastures... and a number of you have emailed us to wax philosophic about the virtues of your cities.

Well, let's just face it... some places just aren't the sort of cities that we would want to live in.

So, this Message Board Topic is for discussion of the cities that are on the "No way, Jose" list. If you think we are wrong... try to convince us otherwise.

In addition, if you know of a city that we should avoid like the plague, post it here!

The inaugural city that we would never move to is... Denver.

Now before you start getting all defensive there, Slappy, let me tell you about my visits to Denver.

First, most every time I have ever been through Denver, it has snowed. Hard. I moved away from the North East because of the snow.
The times when it hasn't been snowing, there have been tornado watches. When there is no tornado watch, it's a thunderstorm watch. Either way, you have the weather of the damned.

Once, I landed in Denver and my co-worker and I decided to drive to Colorado Springs for a meeting. We figured, it's a beautiful day... the weather is nice, the drive is only an hour and a half, and it beats being stuck in a cramped plane. So we pick up the rent-a-car and start driving, we hit the highway and everything is fine. We crack open the windows, grab some cigarettes and our lighters and try to light the afore mentioned cigarettes. Unfortunately because there is so little oxygen in the "Mile High City" the lighters wouldn't light. We tried to get those suckers to spark for so long, we had blisters on our fingers. So we had to get off of the highway and find a gas station where they sold matches.

If a lighter doesn't have enough oxygen... what about my poor lungs?

The one benefit is that due to the lack of oxygen in Denver, it only takes me a few beers to get all loopy... which will be a significant cash savings... hmm...

It's for these reasons that Denver is out of the running. So, Slappo, what says you about this?

So now you're pooh-pooing my fair adopted hometown. I see how it is. And I'm supposed to take this from someone who lives in the land of fruit loops and nuts? Freak central?

Yeah, you guys sure do have a winner there, lemme tell you. I went to Frisco (cause I know how much you all hate that) a couple of times and i just kept thinking... ok, we're going to go to an adult place soon, where theres a little atmosphere, and you can smoke and I won't run into little suburban urchins slumming it in the big city, panhandling, for lack of anything better to do.

Well, THAT never happened. All these places with lotsa bright light and you can't smoke inside? How in the FUCK are you supposed to have a romantic dinner (or put the timid first moves on the first date) in a restaurant that looks like its lit with 500k candella lights everywhere? How could you let the state destroy possibly one of the greatest moments of a meal: The after-dinner smoke and coffee?

OY VEY! Just toss that whole state out the window for living.

Then we got the NorthWest, land of grunge mucic, flannel, and rain. That sounds great. Wanna live in Seattle? I hope you're not into tanning...

And another thing about the NoCal-Seattle metropolis of hipness: What in the name of sweet Jesus are you guys trying to do to coffee??? "Double Half-Caf Rapsberry Espresso"? "Mocha Nut Java with Lemon"? "Frothy Smooth Teardrop Latte"?
What in the hell are you thinking? I just wanna reach across the counter and grab "Destiny" by her little nose ring and scream at her:

"GODDAMN IT! COFFEE! DON'T OVERBOIL IT, COMPRESS IT, FROTH MILK INTO IT, DRIP ESSENCE OF WHATEVER INTO IT! JUST POUR ME A CUP OF FUCKING COFFEE IN A LITTLE PAPER WITH CARDS ON THE SIDE AND THE DRAW CARD ON THE BOTTOM, SLAP A LID ON IT AND LET ME GET ON MY WAY!

AND WHILE YOU'RE AT IT TURN OFF THE FUCKING ANNI DEFRANCO! ITS SEVEN THITRY IN THE GODDAMN MORNING AND I'M TRYING TO WAKE UP ENOUGH FOR WORK, YOU FREAK!!!"

uh, excuse me.

Lets just say the NorthWest is out. All of it.

Toss out Houston.

It sucks ass.

Parking is a nightmare, the city is HUGE. The only theatre is the Alley, and although it's a rockin' place, in the fourth largest city in the nation or whatever you'd think they'd support the arts.

No sir, not at all.

Oh sure, there's the ballet and the opera and all the things that people can send ten bucks to and say they support the arts, but there's no passion.

Unless you're talking about sports. Football, Basketball, and Baseball. The Holy Houston Trilogy.

Totally flat. No trees. Nothing pretty, and the arts district is limited to a couple of blocks. And it's like the youth gone wild over there to.

Boring. Boring. Boring. You have to drive for (and i'm not kidding) an hour to get to something of mild interest.

A waste of four years of my life.

Oooh! Oooh! I have one: Tampa, FL. Now, Avery's dad lives there and seems to love it, but here's Tampa:

Strip mall, strip mall, strip mall, strip mall, strip mall, strip mall, Busch Gardens, strip mall, strip mall, strip mall, It's hot out here, strip mall, old person, old person, old person, strip mall, traffic, traffic, goddoesEVERYONEhaveacar?, traffic, headache, will somebody turn the AIR on?, strip mall.

Hey Slap...

I think the only people who care if you call San Francisco "Frisco" are those stupid yuppie "non fat no foam half caf half de-caf soy milk vanilla latte" people. Personally, if the name Frisco is good enough for the Hells Angels who came into the Toronado last weekend, who the hell am I to complain?

Yeah, San Francisco is a place for the terminally twnety-something or the old/rich set. It's sad. There are a few good romantic restaurants around... but they'll run you over $150 per person, and they have year long waiting lists.

Oh, and I'd give my left arm to be able to smoke in a bar again here.

Seattle... nope. Nice place to visit, but not enough there to make me want to live there.

However, given a choice between Seattle and Denver, gotta say that Seattle would win. At least the beer is good up there... unlike that piss-beer from Golden, Colorado...

-- Avery

Pamie -

Houston is tons better than Pittsburgh, though. At least Houston has good seafood and is close to the Gulf.

Hey, you missed the best part of Tampa:

Sweatin' with the Oldies!

Sheesh. 98 degrees with 98% relative humidity with 98 year olds driving their big-ass boat of a car.

They do have a good Center for the Arts though...

TO add my two bits to the thread that NOONE but the FOUR OF US has the CAJONES to post to:

on Tampa - Worked at Busch Gardens, got free Watered down beer.
Has a GREAT arthouse theatre calles appropriately "The Tampa Theatre" - has (or had) a guy that would play an organ onstage before teh movie started, and as he finished, they lowered him down underneath the stage - CLASSIC!

On Houston - No Dice because
A) Psycho Ex Lives there.
B) I can't take living someplace that's that freakin flat.
C)Big Hair is bad for the eyes.

on Coors & Denver - Coors sucks ass. I know very few people out here who actually drink the stuff. We gotta pretty fair amount of micros out here, too. [If you ever see lefthand Brewery stuff, its pretty good]

ALSO - Who the hell can resist living 60 minutes away from the phattest powder in the country? Not I, Kurasawa.

on Pittsburgh - Its in Pennsylvania.
What the hell else nagative do you need to say?

And to the rest of you folks:
HERES A HINT: TYPE OR PERISH, SPARKY!
IF YOU'RE JUST GONNA WATCH, GET OFFLINE AND TURN ON THE DAMN TV.
Its the INTER-net, as in INTER-ACTIVE, you toadys.

Ok...

On Tampa - Yes, they have a cool theater like that. So does San Francisco (it's called the Castro Theater)... but in San Francisco, the organist plays show tunes.

On Pittsburgh... Hey! We lived in Pennsylvania for a year and... well... yeah, I guess I agree. Still, Pittsburgh is better than Newark.

On the whole Denver front... the benefit of San Francisco is that I am a 3 hour drive from the snow. You see, I can get up in the morning, go out to the ocean, jump in a rent-a-car and be skiing by lunch. Plus, our ski resorts have gambling.

Sorry Slap, though Denver isn't the lowest of the low... ya still haven't sold me on it.

-- Avery

PS: New Belgium Brewing from Colorado (Fort Collins me thinks) makes some very good beers. Not a reason to move there, but it keeps me sane when I have to travel to Colorado Springs.

ok, before i even go to my defense of pittsburgh - which i LOVE, i'll add my lists of cities i'd never live in:

madrid - love the heat and the fact that everything is so picturesque, but you can't walk three feet without somebody masturbating at you.

ohio - ok, i know it's not a city, but i kind of consider it one big desolate nowhere state anyway.

atlanta - can't live in a city where when you walk through the airport the women all look like manicured clones of each other. i'd have to dye my hair blonde and start wearing pink, which i reject.

newark - it's not the carjacking capitol of the world for nothing.

and the winner of the city i consider the worst place in the world and would never live in a million years:

paris

sure, they have good food, but everybody pees on the street. don't get me started on this one.

ok, now, on to pittsburgh. i have to say, i've lived a lot of places (some of them considered some of the most wonderful cities in the world) and i'd move back to pittsburgh in a flash if the economy were any good. contrary to popular belief, there's a lot going on there. there's a huge art scene (pittsburgh actually has more museums per capita than the average us city), there are actual seasons - and western pa is actually known for having one of the most colorful autumns in the nation, there's an air mall at the airport, there are some really freaky clubs and neighborhoods, there's a large gay population, there's a huge jewish population, there are eat 'n parks at appropriate junctions, there's hockey, football and baseball (even though you'd have to question that from the pirates' last season), and most importantly there's iron city beer and clark bars. ok, well, that last part was a joke, but you see my point. maybe i'm bias because of my history there, but i dig the place and think it gets an undeserved shitty image. i mean, sure we have our rednecks, but they're endearing.

and slappy, i've been to your page and know where you live, too. . .so watch it when you dis my home.

From the days of my youth, pennsylvania has always been a mythical place. We used to go cvamping right near the NY/PA border and the act of driving into PA for supplies was like torture for my Dad.

I guess it comes down to the fact that the second you go south over the border theres this HUGE SIGN with a picture of a trooper pointing a radar gun at you with a list of the fines right next to him (5 mph over was like $135!) nad a "Welcome to Pennsylvania" Over him.

Then when the national speed limit was raised, they added the welcoming phrase:
"Where the Speed Limit is STILL 55."

THen as I got older I went into PA on my own a few times. I think the nicest thing I swa in the whole state was that troper on the sign. All you need is one pitstop in Allentown to get what I'm saying. ick.

Now that Im thinking of it, PA neighbor to the west, aint all that hot either.

I mean, who the hell would wanna live in CLEVELAND?

Ha ha! We STILL joke about the "Still 55" signs to this day! Anyway, we never lived in Pittsburgh proper, just in a small, teeny, tiny, eensy, weensy outlying town with nothing in it at all, aside from some scary hunting-type people. I think we have additional bad memories of PA due to the fact that we didn't have a car when we lived there, so we had to ride our bikes a l-o-o-ng way to classes, and the grocery store, and everywhere, even when there was a foot of snow on the ground.

Regarding SF, people are always surprised when I tell them that I hated San Francisco very much for almost the whole first year that I lived here. I really did, too.

Actually, I have been to Cleveland twice. It's not the best city in the world... it's about par with Baltimore. You know what I mean... one of those places where if you are stuck there for 3 days for a meeting it isn't so bad, but there is no way you would ever want to live there.

The funny thing is that on my last trip to Cleveland, I was at a place called the Harbor Inn, which is a dive bar with a couple hundred beers (in the bottle - no taps) and the bartender there recognized me from the Toronado in San Francisco.

Small world, ain't it!

Lookit Jocelyn comin with the threats!

You gonna spank me? OOOOOH!

I'll lay off Pittsburgh for now, I have a most hated place:

Central New York.

Actually, you can pretty much grab everything north of The City, with -maybe- the exception of Albany, and give it the title of "Asshole of the World".

I grew up there and from the Stinkiness of Buffalo to the frigid wastelands of Watertown you're hard pressed to find ANYTHING that could be called a center of culture. Some small bands of intelligence exist, but they are far too few and far between.

The whole area is almost entirely made up of the lowest common denominator. Groups that make movies like "Road House" and "Porky's" and pretty much any other piece of shit with enough bombs and breasts in them financial successes. People who think of Red Lobster as Fine Dining and Married With Childern hing culture.

I grew up there, and people I love still live there, but I would rather live on the street in Denver before I live in Central New York even again.

Aah... redneck New York. I remember driving from Boston to Troy, NY in a cramped Geo Metro to get some chicken wings late one night.

I remember as we pulled into a gas station in the middle of nowhere how creepy it was.

I'd rather live in a slum before living in Rednecks-ville.

In defense of Jocelyn, Pittsburgh is not a bad town. There are actually some pretty wonderful places if you get to know the place. (The Pennsylvania Turnpike, however, does bring to mind images of the lower depths of Dante's Hell)

My vote for the most deity-forsaken pit on the planet, though, would have to be Pigeon Forge, TN. As I drove through I stared in slack-jawed amazement at the barrage of go-kart tracks, miniature golf courses, and wax museums that line both sides of the freeway for miles (most other motorists along the way were also slack-jawed, but it was usually genetic).

I've driven through TN on my way from Boston to New Orleans. One reststop at a Stuckeys Truck Stop, a 4000 calorie/400 gram of fat dinner at a Cracker Barrel where everybody kept staring at us (and we weren't even tattooed or pierced back then), and an average speed of 85 because we just wanted to get the hell out of there!

Brmingham, Alabama was the worst stop on the road trip though...

Hey... who here (now up to a GLORIOUS SIX by my count) has driven through Kansas on I-70 and seen the signs...

COME

SEE

THE

WORLDS

LARGEST

PRARIE

DOG!

2 HEADED CALF!

6 LEGGED COW!

I dont know about you guys, but me? I'm fuckin MOVIN there someday!

Pennsylvania rocks!! It's a happenin' state and beautiful to boot. That is all.

slap - i know you didn't just laugh off my warning. you'd better watch it. i'll bring the pain, my friend.

bailey - you rock.

upstate new york - never even considered it worth mentioning. thought not wanting to live there was a given.

tennessee - yeah, but then there are the smokey mountains, and i can vouch that there's at least one gay person there because he was running the bed and breakfast i stayed in.

cleveland - like i said, ohio, blacken it off the map.

kansas via I70 - i've done this, and it was a very zen like experience for me. i thought those six legged cows were just from midwestern inbreeding.

got another one, but this one is kind of a given too. charlestown, west virginia. i stayed in the nicest hotel in town and it was $40 a night and next to railroad tracks. there was a great 7-11 across the street though.

Pennsylvania?
Happening?

hahahahahahhahaahahahahahahahaha!

The only people that I have ever met who think "Pennsylvania Rocks" are the people who have never left Pennsylvania. You see, once you see the other states, you'll realise that Pennsylvania is just an extension of New Jersey... and you know how "happening" New Jersey is.

I have lived in beautiful states, West Virginia has some absolutely drop-dead gorgeous mountains, gorges and forests. It doesn't mean that I would ever live there again.

And let's be realistic here... Pennsylvania is certainly not beautiful. West Virginia is lush and green... Pennsylvania is dingy and barren. PA is the backwaters of the Mid Atlantic States without the water.

Sorry. I've lived there. You can't even buy liquor at the grocery store.

Hell, even Cleveland Rocks more than Pennsylvania. How do I know this? Simple. Drew Carey told me.

North Dakota. Without question. You know, everyone bitches about Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, etc., etc., etc., but North (and most of South)Dakota takes the fucking cake. Yes, I lived in upstate N.Y. for five miserable years (how can it possibly be twenty below and STILL blizzarding, you ask? LAKE EFFECT SNOW, three of the dirtiest words in the english language, when combined.) But due to some adolescent fantasy my dad had about fishing in Minnesota, every year the family would pile into the R.V. and drag ass up there, via the Dakota's.
Their claim to fame is the "National Grasslands". Euphimism for endless miles of nothing heaped upon nothing. No trees, no towns, no gas stations, no animals, no birds, no radio stations, nothing nothing nothing. Only grass, as far as the eye can see. And I can tell you, being stuck in an R.V. with family, looking oh-so-forward to spending three weeks in minnesota, especially when one is stuck smack dab in adolescent angst, AND having to drive through the Dakota's, well, let's just say it's a miracle I made it out alive.

So now I'm in Denver, living with the illustrious Slappy (yes, I am, respectfuly, "Jesus-H-Christ, the S/O speaks). And we do have some mighty fine beer here, but nothing can compare to Kilkenny's. Only threw that in because I know how crazy it'll make Slap. Encourage everyone else here to sing Kilkenny's praises, whether you've had it or not. Think you've seen Slappo at his best? Not even close. I know ALL the right buttons to push.

Kimme... Welcome to Scowl! Anyone demented enough to put up with ol' Slappo for an extended period of time is OK in our book!

Slippery Rock, Pennsylvania introduced us to LAKE EFFECT SNOW. Days on top of days of pure grey-out conditions (I would say white-out conditions, but everything in PA had a sort of greyish tint to it). All I can say is that I am glad to live in a city where there IS NO SNOW. EVER.

Kilkenney's beer... I'll have to ask the bartenders at the Toronado about that...

OK, this has gone far enough...

Now I gotta go home in the middle of the day to get her offa the damn computer...

CHRIST!

HOWEVER... It IS nice to see the rest of the peanut gallery getting into the swing of things and astually putting finger to key and making some words.

In all honesty, I have nothing to gripe about, I just thought I'd post here 'cause I know Kim will look at it:

KIM - GET OFFLINE AND GET TO CLASS, IF YOU'RE READING THIS YOU'RE PROBABLY ALREADY LATE!

(BTW, Jocelyn - you can probably kick my ass - but you'll never catch me. The one semi-rare talent I have is I can climb like a monkey)

nyah nyah nyah.

I actually took out the phone book to peruse the states on the Area Code/Time Zone map. I've noticed that I've never been to any of the states that begin with "I."

When we talk about going on vacation, though, I always bring up Cape Cod, 'cuz I used to go there every summer when I was a kid. Vermont, too. I always think that even though I was bored in those places 12 years ago I won't be bored NOW, because NOW I am a "grown-up."

Vermont has alotta cows.

Oh, though New Orleans is interesting, I don't think I'd like living there with that sticky, smelly heat. Good food, though!

Janet,

We've driven through Illinios on our trip out west, and you took a band trip to Indianaoplis, Indiana.

You're not old enough for your memory to start failing yet...

ok. i have a confession.

all of these places we're slamming . . .

i'd probably be willing to live in any of them.

because underneath the raging social exterior that you all see. . .i'm a homebody.

oh yes, i may be the first to drag everybody else out, but my heart's at home with a blockbuster tape, or in an even better world a video tape from an establishment not run by commies but hey i want to come home happy too and if the only place i can get my tape is blockbuster i'm not above that, and a pizza and the cats. usually not even any other people. just the cats.

and this is a great lifestyle if you live in less extroverted places than san francisco.

so i may slam places, but don't be surprised if you see me end up in rural tennessee or kansas.

Joselyn's first neighbor in Tennessee:

"Yore a bawkser? Uh gorl bawkser? Hee-Yuh!

EY, Cleetus! Get over here an take a gander at this gorl that sez shez a bawkser!"

(could NOT leave that alone... hadda do it.)

Two points to Slappy for that one.

My ex-Senior Manager is from Tennessee... Sparta, Tennessee to be exact... and he'll never go back there. Not even for money.

How's that for a compelling argument against Tennessee?

Well, if Tennessee isn't good enough for a Senior Manager, it's entirely not good enough for me...

In other news, I'm going to go slap the hell out of Kimme now for putting the mental image of me scrumping and sweating profusely into the minds of everyone who looks at this board. (and I wont even go into the fact that she got me out of bed to go get her damn orange juice at an ungodly early hour this morning...)

a good argument for Denver: The Normandy Restaurant. Go with a bunch of tiny-stomached girls so you can eat whatever they don't finish!

slap - yeah, you get bonus points from me on that one, too.

in other news, i'm going to go start a sex topic somewhere just so we can have one. that and so i can comment on imagery gifts from kim.

later,
jocelyn

Okay, Avery...

I'm a little late in reading these posts, but nonetheless, I have to defend Pittsburgh or I may have my boy leave me....

When I first went to Pittsburgh (last Thanksgiving, to meet his fam) I thought that I was going to visit the dingiest, nastiest place in America.

But it wasn't, and it isn't. There's tons of things to do there, and we had a blast. There's neighborhoods, which they've totally forgotten about in Texas. There's hockey. There's football. There are seasons, and families, and culture...

And you were saying that the only people who love Pittsburgh are the people who never left... well, my boy left, came down here and went around and such, and still loves it...

granted, neither of us are planning on living there or anything, but it's a nice place to visit.

(sidenote for whoever was discussing the eat n' park: when I first got there, Eric's brother was working at an eat n' park, but the way they were saying it, I thought he was a chef for a country club: Eaton Park. I was the butt of a few jokes on that one.)

Cleveland-- bad things always happen to me when I am in Cleveland. You can pinpoint me or Cleveland as the cause, but I'll go with Cleveland. Ugh. It's a scary place.

Houston=suckage. Everywhere else in Texas=rockin' with great people.

I take umbrage at everyone dissin' Tennessee. (But you are partially redeemed because you gave me an excuse to say "take umbrage".) I was born in Memphis, so clearly it is a superior state. I actually really like Nashville, especially when I ignore the Grand Ole Opry. Great, middle of the road climate. Neighborhoods. Low cost of living. Growing (and diverse) arts scene.

Ditto for Louisville, Kentucky. Oooooo Actor's Theatre.

I really like the whole Minneapolis/St. Paul area, except for the winters. The winters suck. It's not just the snow (which I get tired of waaaaaaay fast). It's the cold. And the duration. But for some reason they take offense when you giggle about _Fargo_.

Ahhhh.

Nice to see that regional jingoism
is alive and well.

Why is it that no matter where people
live they think that they are somehow
superior to people that live in other
parts of the country?

There are no bad places to live, only
shallow obnoxious assholes who don't
have the spine to make a go of it or
the balls to change a place for the
better.

Yes, I am a native southerner. That
does not make me a drooling inbred
redneck. It is strange that my state
is being squashed flat by transplant
Californians and east coasters who
are rapidly destroying some of my
favorite places via gentrification,
yet I am accused of being a redneck
just because I am from the South.

If people are going to give me crap
just because I am from a certain part
of the country, I hope that they will
stop moving here and stay the fuck out
of my town!

Sorry if I don't have a sense of humor
about this. Please remember that just
because you live in a certain city or
region that doesn't make you superior
(or inferior) to me!


Let's try to not be so provincial. This
is why people from the U.S. are disliked
in other parts of the world. :P

Uh, SpaceCoyote... who ever said that people from the south are "drooling inbred rednecks"?

We've happily lived in West Virginia, and have friends and relatives in Tampa, Houston, Austin and Atlanta.

Over the last year, I have been all over the country, including the "Deep South" city of Jackson, MS... and guess what... I had a good time there.

But don't get me wrong... I only enjoyed myself there because I was only there for three nights. Jackson just doesn't have what I'm looking for.

I happen to need certain things in any place where I live:
Regional theater
National Touring Theater space
Religious Diversity
Mass Transit
More than 1 synogogue
Diverse Restaurants
Good regional breweries
International Airport
Major Telecom companies
Major financial/banking center

Knowing that I wouldn't be happy without these resources, why the hell would I choose to live in a city that doesn't have these resources?

You say that you feel that if someone can't live happily _anywhere_ it's because they don't have the "spine" or the "balls" to adjust.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Why the hell would I move to a city where chances are that I wouldn't be happy?

PS: You seem to have a mighty big chip on your shoulder... why not put it aside and extole the virtues of your city?

During my 4-year stint in the Air Force, I got an opportunity to live in a couple of different cities. I was born in New Orleans (land of crime, drunken tourists, and Jimmy Buffet fans) and spent most of my life in the Bay Area. I joined the Air Farce on a whim, thinking that it would be an excellent chance to visit exotic locales, and volunteered for any overseas duty I could get. I must have done some terrible wrongs during a past life, because my first 3-year tour was at Omaha, Nebraska.

Nebraska was exactly as I imagined it would be: a flat and boring place with flat and boring people. The Midwest is the most homogenized area of the country, populated almost entirely by fat white college football fans. I know SEVERAL people there who bought bright red cars for the simple reason that "It's the Cornhuskers' color". In a way, the fact that I worked in an underground vault most of the time was a blessing.

Of course, it would be unfair to say nothing positive about the place. I have to admit that the

Ah, hell. I have been sitting here for 5 minutes trying to think of something nice to say about Omaha. Never mind. Just don't bother going there.

Well, I saw this topic and just had to add my two cents or whatever my opinions are going for these days.

I grew up in ND (although I was born in the Bay Area) and I'll have to agree that you do not want to live there if your the type of person who needs events and activities (aside from schools) going on. ND is the perfect place for a nice homebody who wants to have nice neighbors.

On my short list of where never to live: Lowell, MA, which is where I am now. In fact, Eastern Massachusetts as a whole. The history, old buildings and Boston are ok to visit, but not to live. Dingy is the word that comes to mind (although that may be because I'm sick of winter here already.) No one is friendly, they all talk super fast and cut you off no matter how fast your driving. Sure, there's lots of things to do, but that doesn't help the fact that unless you already have friends here or your in college, you'll be an outsider for a long time. Ugh. Not my idea of fun.


Annie

Places to never visit, let alone live? Kentucky.

In Kentucky, when they pull you over for a burned-out tail-light their cruiser computer will have a break down, meaning your out-of-state license *appears* to have something *wrong* with it. This means you will have to go spend the night in jail. No bonding out. No posting bail. No 'but officer...' In kentucky they 'dont hold' with 'no driving without a license'. Yeah, right.
In the morning, when you are let go, with the provision you return in 30 days to see the judge, you'll find that your vehicle wasnt impounded. You are relieved untill they tell you it was left at the side of the highway, and the patrolmen arent taxi drivers. Upon returning to the cursed state for your court date, the prosecutor will stare you down menacingly, while the judge searches through your records (the ones you procured and brought with 'just in case' they hadnt bothered to...which they hadnt) and determines that 'Yes, you are right. There is nothing wrong with your license. Hmmm'
Small relief that you are free to go, and 'with a story to tell your grandchildren'. Added insult: Officer that 'brought you in' neglected to complete your paperwork properly, or even show for your trial. Legal aid defense attorney present at sidelines jokingly suggests the officer be brought up on contempt of court charges. This makes you feel *slightly* better as you rush out of the building...It'll be dark soon.

Many Kentuckians also profess that 'Tobacco Doesnt have any properties that could in any way cause cancer, and what kind of science fiction are they trying to sell us?!!' Needless to say, they grow alot of tobacco there.

I find that you can learn alot about a place by its laws or limits therein. For example, the expected standard of living can't be very high in Kentucky if the allowed home exemption in Bankruptcy is only about $5000.00. In some states such as Florida it can be as high as $150,000.00!

God help you if you chose Kentucky, but dont forget to take a look at the states laws before you make your final decision...*arching a brow* Cause I think theres still a state where the laws still on the books that women cant own property. *chuckling*

**disclaimer = your own experience may differ...but I doubt it.*LOL* **